This Jedi Church should be able to sell certificates of ordainment?

On average, everyone agrees with significant nonconsensus between 926 voters.

Reasons To Disagree

We should not have to pay in monetary values in order to follow the teachings of those who were not about having such attachments....who ever thought they should is not as idealy Jedi as one thought...

it should not be a sale you should have to earn it just as any other religion if you can prove you are a true beliver in the force you should be ordained but if you cannot why should you be able to pay ofr it? but administrateve fees should be alowwed

A certifiacte does not prove anything

Well, even though the site must be kept up somehow, I don't believe we should pay for being ordained; meanwhile, those of us who haven't paid cannot access the "council login", which is nonsense. What if some retard who just wants to believe he's a Jedi bought the paper and now is part of the Jedi Council and all others who have true wisdom but do not believe in materialism are not part of it?

I do not believe money and religion should be related, ever.

This is how the Christian church became so... convoluted. A donations section could work for site fees, though.

A church should not sell anything, it should only provide guidance. If you do want to pay for a religion then you should be a scientologist (The pay as you go religion)

the must be free

selling such things is unbecoming

Donations only, profit = greed = dark side. Look at Donald Trump (definite Sith Lord)....

They should be free because the poor should not be victimised against. The force doesn't charge us to use it!

They should be free

Site maintained by adverts, selling certificates of ordainment is just greedy.

They must be won for merits the vatican were selling exonerations to the rich criminals of past

I dont think we should have to pay to proove my belives

Sell! We Jedi are here to help, money has no place. A certificate should be awarded to those who show their commitment to the Force through their daily life. I myslef requires no paper to prove my faith.

a true jedi title should only be ATTAINED THROUGH passing the trials

A jedi should not be known by a piece of paper, but by his way of life...

No They should be free

If the Jedi Church collects money, it will become corrupt like the .... well, I won't insult any religions by name. If it's not a labor of love, don't do it.

A certificate does not a Jedi make.

Sell religion = Dark side

Ha de ganarse por meritos.

They should be free. If a jedi church was set up near me, i would go along every sunday and chuck a coupla bucks in there. Isnt that enough?

no i would rather be ordained as a jedi minister for free

A price of any kind cannot be put on Jedi matters

It they are sold they are worthless.

all churchs should be free

I think this would debase it.

If you are trying to make money then you are a business. Religion is about faith not profit.

Shouldn't being a Jedi be enough? Do buddhists go around waving their buddhist cards? Is it faith that makes you a jedi, or is it the card?

No point all it would do is trn jedi into a money making scam.

we should be alowed to be certified as jedi as free but i can understand lightsabers costing the greens =p

You should not put a price tag on ordainment for that will lead to greed and greed is a path to the dark side.

should not have to pay for a certificate you should have to have a passes trial where you have to should you faith, starting off as a jedi and becoming a Lord or Master depending if you pass the passes.

Sounds like selling alms back in the dark ages, paying for absolution. The concept is antithetical to the Jedi. Donations should support the site.

Give, not sell.

you miss the point you can not buy a certificate to become JEDI You train you master all that is required then You become JEDI we all can train not all that trains will be able to master we can not allow weakness jedi with weakness makes sith stop selling buddy

You should not sell, they should be earned and given.

Every church needs money to do stuff with, however Jedi as a rule seek no material objects other than their light saber. money only corrupts people and there is plenty of evidance for that

jedi church selling certificates=personal gain

why should we pay for our faith?

Too much like the old days when the church sold forgiveness for sins...

it will make the religon look cheap when it is in fact quite noble. we should be able to be jedi without any tax.

Money should not have a part in ordainment. Ordainment is something earned, not purchased.

the jedi ORDER(not church) should not make money. only cover costs.

its a cheap way of abbusing star wars fans. but the money have to come from somewhere

its a piece of paper. The Jedi are not about money. Donation is definatly the way. Jedi's are always willing to give and help any way they can

we are free people

No.

$in

They should be provided free, we should be able to print them out. Nice versions should be available for purchase through the Church.

They should be able to GIVE certification perhaps, though that would defeat the purpose of invisibility.

Certification should be earned, not bought. While it costs money to maintain ourselves, the money should come from donation of the Jedi members. I believe that every member has the right to seek ordainment by way of earning it. Personally, I can't afford the certificate right now.

A REAL Jedi should live in true poverty.

They should be free of charge.

some people have little money as it is, donations would surfice

No..... "Certificates of ordainment" are only for those who are part of the $ith....

They should not be sold but given to the member.

Ordainment should be earned, not "sold" to any who want it.

Name another religion that does this, I can't, religions take donations, not money from future members

I'd say charge for shipping and handling (like if members live too far away), but don't charge for the certificate itself.

i want to join but it's to expensive

absolutly not the idea of jedi pawning of certificates is fucking stupid and it makes us look more like a cult or novelty religion. giving some sad pathetic little fucktard money just to feel like ur part of something with a lil certificate is scandilious. and this place should be ashamed.

Authority is passed from one with authority to another by the laying on of hands. Authority can not be purchased.

A certificate of ordainment is a material object and as such requires materials to create. As materials are not free in the greater culture of humankind then asking for replacement of materials used is acceptable. A certificate is not necessary to participate in the Jedi order. In these lights you are not selling certificates of ordainment but merely presenting certificates where the materials needed to produce them are provided by the recipient. As long as there is not profit then there is no "sell". If materials are given that are in excess of those needed to produce the certificates then that is a "sell" and the order should seek to understand the purpose of selling certificates. A religion must exist by the materials provided by its followers, once the tennants of the producer and buyer relationship are embraced it no longer becomes a religion but a buisness. As the question is written, no the the church should not "sell" certificates.

Operational costs should be covered by donations, whether through financial means or perhaps "in-kind" donations - bandwith/server space should be considered.

They should be free

certificates should be free, any funds neccisary should be collected in an offering at meetings.

Sale of this should be banned. The reason being is that we want to feel proud in what we believe in and for some people displaying that certificate proudly should be easy to do. Not everyone has the funds and so they are being ruled out of this. MAKE THEM FREE

you shouldn't have to pay for your belief

isnt it enough to follow your teachings, and not have to pay to become an official member

it should be attained

we are all the force

Selling ordainment may be interesting as novelty, but may possibly risk serious complication in the future if jedi validity and philosophy ever become legitimate. Charlatains and cultish leaders could prevail with little or no moral prerequisites, or any VALID credentials, having bought them at conception. Paying for EARNED ordainment is an entirely different matter.

There is no reason to have to pay to become part of an organization. If you need money to maintain your website allow advertising, and to maintain churches or temples hold fund raisers like any other religious group. Act like recognized religious groups to become one.

We should not have to pay to be a part of this church. I AM THE SHIT.

The teachings of the Jedi faith are not monetary, they are to those who can commune with the Force.

I believe the church should survive financially by donation and not be fee based. "If you want to be ordained, you need to give me money" No!

donations would be better suited to the church

Sell, No. Give out when the pledge is made, yes.

The ordainment should be earned not bought

NO.....money and religion should not be intertwine. religion should be free of monetary connections.

A Donations section will raise more money. It sholud be voluntary with no minimum excepy zero, (or maximum)

The jedi church is not for profit.

as in a jedi with srong foce to gide us we need to pass a teast of fath and the jedi way first then to look into the deepest fears and to loook at all the fears we have to confrunt them

As a Sith Lord, I of course see no need for a Jedi ordination. However, I remind you that the selling of virtues is a great way to adulterate that virtue. Ordination should be the result of study and effort, not just giving money to a cause. If the site needs money, sell something cheap and popular, like T shirts or coffee mugs.

I want one, but not to pay for it, if the site must be mantained, we can give money, but without obligation...

Less consenration in money.

this is a strange idea certainly every one will give a little for our expenses

People should EARN their certificates, not purchase them.

No. There is no valid religious belief system on the planet that sells ordainment. Sell them a special robe or collar if you need to raise money. Ordainment may only be attained through learning and wisdom, other wise you become a joke and a novelty. Read of the esoteric orders, not of the TV evangelists.

Money is the creation of greed and greed is a creation of the Dark side, ordainment shouldn't be sold, it should be earned, selling it leaves us vunerable to the darkside

I say no. This reminds me strongly of what caused Martin Luther to nail the 95 Theses to the Church door. And to the guy in the Nuetral section, "Free with a donation" would be exactly the same as what's happening now.

These should be free. We are not a profit making religion and should recognise our members.

do not agree by "sell", but to "give" as recognition to leverage The Force principles and foundations

Jedi order should be up held up by donations not sales. The force is in all of us, no certification can prove that.

Not sell but give it to those who earn it. The Jedi didn't sell Anakin the rank of Jedi Master.

they should give out certificates not sell them

To follow, understand, and accept the concept and ways of the Force is not something you can sell. It is something that each of us must achieve and once one accepts it and joins this church, one should receive certification for free of charge. To follow the concept of money is to be slave to Greed, and Greed is a tool of the dark side.

They should give certificates to their priests, reverends or whatever they are called in Jediism, but we should not have to pay in such a materialistic way for our right to preach.

I am uncomfortable with being able to buy ordination it reverts to money and the dark side

money is the root of all evil

They should be earned not sold.

Ordination should be free, donations should be optional.

Through Training one must, showing loyalty to the Jedi Path one must, paying to be a Jedi is a Sith Move.

To put a price on religion is to steal off the minds of the weak

They should be earned, not sold. We are Jedi, not scientologists

selling some certificate is the same as banks doing loads. you get roped in to buy more and feel obligated to serve. you don't see other religions charging people for membership.

They should be given to those who ask for it and can show a sense of knowledge in the church

Jediism espouses free thought -- what one believes can be a function of the mentors they've had, or their own thinking, and others should be free to choose to learn from they. For example, the dark side is an integral part of the force, and those who are called to it /must/ be trusted to choose their path -- for whichever path is forced upon them will often be the path rejected. If we are to trust that there is an innate sense of good in everyone, we cannot choose to ordain certain members. If the problem is one of funds, perhaps Jedi can choose to honour their mentors with ceremonial gifts bought from the Jedi church; through a system involving public nominations to avoid abuse.

Anyone who feels the path should be able to walk it... A Jedi should be able to claim the ability to do things like marriage because that's simply accepting that 2 people want to be bound

im more with the force than anyone as you shall soon see mine will be free lol lol

donation = religion money payment = sect

These should not be sold, only earned.

A Jedi craves not wealth. Ordainment is a matter of spirituality and the Will of the Force, not sales.

there is too grate a chance for the greed of man to enter our fath if the church begins to sell anything.

I do not think they should be sold, but earned

they must be earned as is a spot on the jedi council

Award maybe. but sell hum no

I think ordination should be earned not purchased. By your deeds you should be known not by your wallet. If there is an admin cost that alone should be met

Money corrupts,

Reasons To Agree

Somehow the cost of the web site and the printing of the materials should be covered. I do believe that some "moral" test be administered before certificates be sold.

Its personal choice to buy, I dont have to and I wont be not at ?12.00 if it were ?2.00 plus post thats fair, I know the site has to be maintained

i hope a truly good organisation will emerge to change the world for the better. to do this it will need money. i hope that those in reciept of the miney have that as their goal.

If people are dumb enough to buy them, yes.

I undertsand that the cost of the website must be maintained

As a church it should be able to raise money for its necessaries in any way that would comport with the morality of the Jedi, that is, to advance the Universal Purpose as it is made apparent to us through the manifestations of the Great Force.

It should be able to, but not necessarily do so.

i want one

It is cheaper than becoming an ordained christian minister

Administrative fees are ok.

I think there should be some basic requirements for ordination as a Jedi Knight.

Listen. A Donations section will get you more money. Ponder that. The certificate should be lowered to 5 dollars as a certificate is not that important to Jedi but a nice thing to have being that Jedi give "services" to the community and the galaxy. Security Guards have certificates and so do University graduates. They all offer a service. Thus the Jedi certificate should be given a more detailed purpose ... as in SERVING all sentients through the force. Give it more meaning. Listen to the force. Insure the Jedi ... Purpose.

yes I agree on the sale of the ordainments however when our numbers grow to where we dont have to sell them then they need to be earned through study and a number of years in active support of the church

Donations are better for site upkeep, but there is no problem with selling certificates. Sell yummy Jedi cookies if it makes your goal!

Helping our founding members pay for the free website we all use, only shows that Jedi ARE generous people. The first Jedi didn't get to have any possessions. If anything I thing the cost should be higher so we can weed out the true and just from the temporary, and fool hardy.

Every church needs money to support their operations.

Its the users choice to get one

I am semi-indifferent on this. I believe the donation should be optional, and should probably be paid by it's followers to support the way. We should not be materialistic and should give to help others. However, I do not belive the charge should be mandatory. Therefore I slightly vote on the acquiescence.

The church does need some income to function.

These are all free countries where the free market should dictate the course of action. Sure it's ridiculous. But if people will buy them and you idiots want to sell them to make people believe that they will be more qualified to swing their plastic lightsabers around their parents basement, why not.

Yeah. It was fun.

sell no earned yes but, some profit must be made to maintain what we have. sad to say money is needed for everything nowadays. no need to make it a certific. if you truly believe then you know who you are. there are non-believers among us and the sith are everywhere

Why not?

Ordainment should be seperate from the purchase of a certificate, but they (the Jedi Church) have an absolute right to sell a certificate to anyone they chose to ordain!

I see nothing wrong with this. The cost of printing the certificate needs to be covered. Hell I paid $30.00 to be ordained as a SubGenius minister.

So long as you are honest about what exactly you are selling, you should be allowed to sell anything people are willing to pay for.

i agree but disagree. Yes, you should sell them. but not sell them. just hand them out, give them to people as a gesture of good will. most people would be turned off the fact that you have to pay. most people will think you're scamming them

The Church requires a small amount of money to function. It is not betraying the Jedi way to fulfill what is essential.

I think it's fair to sell them, as long as the money is going to upkeep of the web site and not into the pockets of the people...it's not like you are forcing people to buy them it's a personal choice.

It helps fianance the church to help it grow.

Actually, when one looks into the costs of operation, the certificates are CHEAP.

The costs should come in at least, and when some money is in your possession at the end of a year you can make a donation.

Well as long as the money is not used for personal gain and instead to improve the order then I don't see why not.

How the Church conducts it's business is a matter for the duly elected council, who should decide such things based on the general consensus.

'Sell' ? From what I read the cost is to cover production, mailing and support the costs in managing the site and the organisation.

yes it has to pay for the sever and other things some how

I plan to buy one some day.

that is Diplomates of Ordainment. I am in favor of Chirches, i just don't like tooth fairy creeds and born-again morals, i can live with whoever i want to live with.

Everything costs money - just like running a website.

Every organization needs to make money to keep operating. If not, it would go under very quickly!

why do we have to buy them? like buy buy

yes, even in the martial arts there is a price for each belt level test.

If you have enough disposable income to buy one then by all means.

It would show a sense of identity.

Provided the person in a somewhat active member and provided they be given some sort of alignment test. If you are truly Dark, Grey, or Light it should be properly recognized by your odaination. (i.e. Jedi Smith of the Light Alignment.)

It's just another way to show off your faith, convert christian barbarians, and to have proof that you are worthy to download the iPhone lightsaber.

In this society money is nessessary for programs like this site. There should be a free certification option for thos who so choose

We should be allowed all things any other church is afforded.

if the Jedi Church truly is a non-profit church then yes, but only charge for the amount of the marerials.

So long as the cost of the certification covers the costs to make it, deliver it, and maintain certain aspects of the Order, then I am OK with that.

as long as the fee is reflective of just cost of making, sending and admin cost of service the hell yeah, there is nothing for free in this universe...

umm .. have you watched TV on a sunday morning, nuff said

But for free im a bit skint at the mo

I believe that based on the tenants of this church, the fact of the matter is that true faith lies in each one of us. Therefore, the ability to ordain lies in all of us. Therefore, by proxy this church should have the authority to ordain it's own clergy.

The Ordaining of a Jedi, should have qualifications to meet. As for a fee; that would depend on what you obtain from being ordained. Is there a recognized church that will authorize said ordained Jedi to perform marriages? If so, these records must be maintained for legal purposes. Hence a fee would be appropriate. The issue may be that what are people looking to gain from instruction. And more so, is there instruction. And what support is there for students who pursue this path. This is what would warrant fees. Otherwise, a fee is not required to learn of self improvement. However, a donation is something that should always be welcomed.

Yes I agree. This will make sure that all who are ordained are of the true nature that the Jedi Church stands for and will continue to follow that true nature.

After,rigorus training and exams then yes. It should not be easy. If a Jedi chooses to buy one to boast then they are fool and corrupt and it is thier fault and the fault of the teacher.

yes i want everything and every info there is to jedism

In order to be ordained we should codify a set of trials or challenges to prove one worthy of ordainment. For instance one of the tasks could be 50 hours of volunteer work or achieving ranks in various martial arts. We also need a council system capable of overseeing the process.

It's not important but it's cool.

For now yes as long as its used for the purpose of good and keep the money inside the church to make it better

Be ABLE to, yes. Require a certificate for members, absolutely not.

what they entail should be discussed

It's voluntary. Though perhaps the should be some 'trials' for different certificates.

After testing and exams, yes. It should not be easy. otherwise everyone would get ordained and give the church a bad name

Ordainment should be free to all who qualify; but Certificates could be sold to finance the church and cover the costs of running the organization, as well as printing out the certificates. There should be some kind of test or peer-review required to be ordained as a Jedi minister. After all, we wouldn’t want to ordain someone who is an agent of the Dark Side of the Force, now would we? (Though mistakes obviously can and do happen – look at Count Dooku). Also, other organizations not affiliated with (need I say, the original) Jedi Church already sell certificates, undermining the validity of the church and profiting from its actions. Put away your fears, for ordain we should do.

Ordainment may not coat money but it is not free to print certificates of ordainment. So ling as the price was reasonable, I would be willing to pay it.

it creates accountability on who is out theresaying they represent the faith

However they should only cost as much as it takes to make them

If a member of the Jedi church wishes to have tangible evidence of their membership, then they should have the certificate from the proper authority.

We should be able to ordain people with the rights to marry others and for a reasonable fee based on the cost of materials involved could charge for such ordination. As long as the spirit of the Jedi cade and teachings were in play. Not in this to make a profit, but also not in this to go bankrupt either as they we could not help others who may need us.

I think it should be earned but sell badges or something to display if you need to bring in money

Full religious rights

An official certificate is important

Maybe give them for free to members? Like an image or something.